MP3s and ownership

JACKG · Apr 27, 2009

I was thinkin over the weekend about MP3s as like Wayne I have a external Hard drive I plan to sell. (Mines 200g and packed so I bought a bigger one so its been sat doin nowt.)

Free plug for Wayne here

http://www.oldskoolanthemz.com/forum/vinyl-4-sale/92814-external-usb-hardrive-sale.html#post760715

Im gonna be specific to legal downloads here (Obviously I dont have any that are aquired ilegally

)...

But if you pay for the MP3 can you leave it on the drive and just sell it and thats fine?

If you make a copy of it and put it on another drive is that ilegal?

What about if you make a copy and delete the original?

You see where Im coming from here, its like if I go and buy a vinyl I can sell it if I want to...can you do that with an MP3?

There a few grey areas.

Presuming Ed · Apr 27, 2009

I think with mp3s you should (like with other music media) be able to make one back up copy legally. I guess the grey area is down to the fact that it is not a tangible format. Ed

pleasuredrom2 · Apr 27, 2009

I've never looked into this but i would think it would come down to proof of ownership. Thus who ever purchased the hdd plus mp3 wouldnt be able 2.

Doddy · Apr 27, 2009

im not sure mate , i do no tho that ages ago i listed a mp3 player on ebay and it got removed from list because i had tunes on it , i had to sell it as just mp3 player with no tunes on . Ebay only new tunes were on it coz i listed them on details , They said by listing artists , it means im using there tunes/rights to sell mp3 player . Asin people may only buy because of tunes on the player and tht wasnt right . If u bought mp3s then they are yours bt i dont think u can share them buy selling stuff with them on , like harddrive mp3 players etc , i think u can make a personal copy of the mp3 if it for ur use only and if u purchased the orig . Im not 100 percent tho mate

Sheikh Yerbouti · Apr 27, 2009

If you make an mp3 of a CD you own, then you own the copyright.

I'm not certain, but I *think* you can copy it freely for your own backup purposes.

What you can't do, is distribute it. So selling a drive or an ipod full of mp3 (even if you own all the CDs or whatever) is in breach of copyright.

You also have to be careful because the copyright is protected on more than just distributing the files themselves... public performance/broadcasting etc.

JACKG · Apr 27, 2009

As Ed says its all about the format really.

If you buy an mp3 (or wavs etc), can you legally sell it?

You can with the music in other formats.

Maybe yet another reason why I love my vinyl :king:

Edit:

And also...once you have purchased an MP3 can you make copies of it.

Eg I might want to burn a copy to play on my CD deck, one for my ipod, one for my PC and one for my laptop lol.

ilovepiano · Apr 27, 2009

Can you sell an mp3 that you've legally bought?

I'd say no, since there would be no way of telling if it was the actual file that you bought, or a copy.

Who the frig would want to buy a second hand mp3 anyway?! Hehehe!

Sheikh Yerbouti · Apr 27, 2009

JACKG said:
If you buy an mp3 (or wavs etc), can you legally sell it?

Again, it's a bit of a punt, but I'd say yes you can, as long as the file is in completely original form.

The original artist/label etc. Don't care, because they got their slice of cash when the thing was sold to you in the first place (just like with records).

It would only be legal provided you didn't retain any copies of the file though.

That's not based on owt factual mind, just my own understanding of copyright law.

JACKG · Apr 27, 2009

ilovepiano said:
Can you sell an mp3 that you've legally bought?

I'd say no, since there would be no way of telling if it was the actual file that you bought, or a copy.

Who the frig would want to buy a second hand mp3 anyway?! Hehehe!

Id buy a 2nd hand MP3 as long as it was mint or near mint lol.

I bet you could prove you bought it legally. The file will have details of when its created etc... you may have a reciept / statement verifying it.

lastnightadj · Apr 27, 2009

ilovepiano said:
I'd say no, since there would be no way of telling if it was the actual file that you bought, or a copy.

You are innocent until proven guilty, surely the onus would be on the prosecution to prove that it was a copy.

ilovepiano · Apr 27, 2009

JACKG said:
Id buy a 2nd hand MP3 as long as it was mint or near mint lol.

I bet you could prove you bought it legally. The file will have details of when its created etc... you may have a reciept / statement verifying it.

Yeah I'm sure you could prove it was bought legally, but you could easily change the date on your pc, then make a copy. That way the copy would have the same "created on" date as the real legal one.

But at the same time, it'd be dead easy to download a ton of stuff off Soulseek and then try and sell it, claiming that you lost your receipts from juno or wherever.

Sheikh Yerbouti · Apr 27, 2009

I'm sure legally the burden of proof would be with the seller.
You would need to prove the file was in original condition when you sold it.
Given there are no DRM provisions (or in fact any kind of protection/authentication) natively within the mp3 format, good luck with that!

It's one of those cases I think where there's nothing legally stopping you doing it, but if it ever came to be tested in court you'd be on a hiding to nothing, so best all round to just not do it in the first place.

JACKG · Apr 27, 2009

Still none the wiser. (Im not planning to sell mp3s by the way).

I dont think its right that you should be presumed guilty if you are selling something you have once legitimately paid for though and no longer wish to use it.

Sometimes I dont even think its that cheap if you want to legally buy say a full single release (with all the mixes say) in its highest quality format - especially when its not tangible, no artwork, and you dont even know if you own it lol

wayne · Apr 27, 2009

Think i have opened a can of worms here and i must admit i had not taken any of this into account before putting it up on here. I just thought it would be easier selling it all as one entity.

I am going to edit my post to be on the safe side any way.

makes interesting reading the thread though

Barrie Jay · Apr 27, 2009

I reckon you should check the terms and conditions from the site were the
MP3 was obtained from legally - I have a gutsy feeling that it will include a no sell on clause.

It`s easy with vinyl or CD as you are allowed to keep a copy in whatever format you choose as long as you keep the original.

If you sell the original then any copies made are then deemed to be illegal.

This will probably apply to MP3.

blue jammer · Apr 27, 2009

T & C's (from Juno's site)

Your use of the Downloads from the Website is conditional upon your prior acceptance of all Conditions referred to herein:

You shall be authorised, to the extent permitted by law, to use, burn and export Downloads purchased only for personal, non-commercial use, and not for redistribution, transfer, assignment or sub-licence. Any burning or exporting capabilities shall not constitute a grant or waiver of any rights of the copyright owners and the delivery of a Download to you does not transfer to you any commercial or promotional use rights in the product.

A club DJ would be commercial use but clubs have to have a license to play music so that covers DJ's at least.

Jack, re the price/format thing - I used to think along the lines that if you bought mp3's and artwork it's never going to be the same as owning a physical format - but it really is all about the music and a vast majority of people thesedays are happy to have just the music - it's a throwaway society where people download, play, delete and over and over again!

As long as people keep buying my mp3's/wav's I don't mind though

JACKG · Apr 27, 2009

blue jammer said:
T & C's (from Juno's site)

A club DJ would be commercial use but clubs have to have a license to play music so that covers DJ's at least.

Jack, re the price/format thing - I used to think along the lines that if you bought mp3's and artwork it's never going to be the same as owning a physical format - but it really is all about the music and a vast majority of people thesedays are happy to have just the music - it's a throwaway society where people download, play, delete and over and over again!

As long as people keep buying my mp3's/wav's I don't mind though

Im just interested to know really..

The way I read that statement from Juno is that you cant legally resell an mp3, whereas you can resell a record.

Do recall certain labels saying it was ilegal to resel a promo though.

Im all for artists gettin paid, Im still buying music that are new releases as well as 2nd hand stuff.

I also like some of the anal stuff, I love to buy box sets with booklets and nice art work.. and Im not particulary fussy..theres a few here that are very anal about the whole 'product'.

To b fair though your absolutely right 'Its all about the music' :thumbsup:

Good luck with the production btw mate

, must be really rewarding (I dont mean financially) seeing yourself out there and peeps wanting your music :king:

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MP3s and ownership

JACKG

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Presuming Ed

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pleasuredrom2

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Doddy

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