Big f@@k off mosque!!!

[amymars]

Originally Posted by Danny C

Amy - I despair I really do. So lets get this straight according to your stats and your interpretation of being a muslim, a new mosque will essentially amount to an terrorist training school? Its all a big conspiracy then? Bin Laden is sat in his cave saying... "I know lets build a £100 million pound mosque in central London because we can use it as a terrorist recruitment centre"..

:

where did I say any of that?

I do religion at university and got a 1st in my Islam course. I know my shit. I know that lots of Muslims are fundementalists. I know that they meet in universities, community centres, and Mosques amoungst other places. This will be a massive mosque. Muslims will go there, some to pray, some to meet other muslims, and some to get in touch with other extremists, and some will recruit terrorists on the sly. That is my problem. Its asking for trouble.

[Shooms]

Originally Posted by Amelie

Hang on, he is disagreeing with you though!

Your argument is that they should not be allowed to have mosques, he is that they can but should view themselves as British.

Again, you're getting mixed up with what it means to be British and forced religion.

lol semantics... I love Betty too... not because of her political views but because I've heard she's got great tits

[amymars]

Originally Posted by seandelier

people have to be very careful when basically implying that you cannot have a mosque without having extremists meet there

its like saying all irish folks are terrorists, its generalising and stereotyping and, quite frankly, incredibly stupid

What other religion aims to recruit and convert in the same way that Islam does? I can't find any other than the extremist baptists in America....and this is Britain. There will be a percentage of extremists in all mosques, and I'd stake my life on it.

[betty spaghetti]

Originally Posted by Amelie

Hang on, he is disagreeing with you though!

Your argument is that they should not be allowed to have mosques, he is that they can but should view themselves as British.

Again, you're getting mixed up with what it means to be British and forced religion.

i was reading his post as...if you dont like it, then feck off...which is what i think, coming over here wanting to live the british way, ie use the education system, use the national health system... well why cant they use our churches and stop building mosques? instead they build their own little communities and keep themselves to them selves, if they want to live the 'british way' why do that ???

i would love to live in a world where there was no relgion-it would be a better place, most wars have been started/blamed in the name of religion...if we didnt have it, i wouldnt feel this way...put it this way i wouldnt go to an islamic country wearing a bikini giving it all hail mary and preaching about jesus,-its not thier custom/beliefs . neither are mosques in britain.

im not forcing religion on no one-each to their own in that, i just dont think having a country full of mosques is the way forward, hows about a new 100M super hospital instead or a super school etc....why a mosque...why not a buddhist temple or a synagogue for the jewish...why another mosque and why one so big???

[Jonno]

Originally Posted by amymars

What other religion aims to recruit and convert in the same way that Islam does? I can't find any other than the extremist baptists in America....and this is Britain. There will be a percentage of extremists in all mosques, and I'd stake my life on it.

Just as there would have been a percentage of nationalists within an Irish community.

Should everyone be tarred with the same brush though?

[Amelie]

Originally Posted by Shooms

lol semantics... I love Betty too... not because of her political views but because I've heard she's got great tits

Soz, i missunderstood. I thought you were saying that each man in Britain can choose whatever relig he likes- yet Betty was saying that ALL mosques should be abolished thus giving no feedom of reigious choice. I didn't realise you both meant the same thing.

[Shooms]

Originally Posted by Amelie

Soz, i missunderstood. I thought you were saying that each man in Britain can choose whatever relig he likes- yet Betty was saying that ALL mosques should be abolished thus giving no feedom of reigious choice. I didn't realise you both meant the same thing.

You didn't misunderstand At least on my part.

BUT I think both Betty & myself agreed on the "If you live here then be proud to be British" viewpoint... hence her post

[Jonno]

Originally Posted by Jiglo

If I think about the wider issue then the old Vicar Of Dibley image of England I love is dying. It's a real shame and I think it's sad that rebels in the muslim community forced their own heritage into our lives faster that in other western countries and started to diuted the way of life that I grew up with but for others in other regions.

I know village life in the sticks isn't directly linked to a mega mosque in London, but it's the start of the tipping point from whence there's no going back. Their faith is taking over the world and one day instead of the churchbell ringing on a sunday morning that I grew up with, we'll have chanting 5 times a day like they have in muslim countries.

Being the biggest place of worship in Europe too sends a very strong message that I don't want. We might not be Christians as a nation, but christians are non threatening to my way of life, but the muslim faith might one day be.

If the plans were for a Swiss, German, Italian, or French city then it would just be a pipe dream and never get beyond planning stage, but thanks to our weak politicians and council leaders trying not to upset the muslim demographic in particular and less worried about protecting our own heritage then this will probably pass to the building stage, cost far more than the estimate, then have the British taxper pay the extra which will probably be at least double the original estimate for the project.

This isn't the issue though - you are making assuptions that haven't happened. If it goes overbudget and the taxpayer has to pay up - then that will definitely be an issue. But it hasn't happened so it has really has no relevance on this.

As for other countries not allowing this to go on, again you are making assumptions. The Swiss aren't going to have the biggest mosque though as they have a tiny muslim population. The French however built Paris Great Mosque themselves in gratefullness to the Muslim tirailleurs from the colonies who had fought against Germany. So it seems historically they aren't adverse to building major mosques.

Besides all this, they would have to put forward a legal reason to deny planning permission. It's exactly the same as us. A legal reason would not be because the vicar of dibley England is dying out though. It would require a change in the law if, as a country, we do not want to allow buildings build that aren't "British", but I suspect that, rightly or wrongly, there would be a cry of racism from some corners if laws were begun to be passed like that. So we still have the same question - what legal obstacles are there to deny planning permission of this mosque? Not emotive, vicar of dibley stuff mind, legal arguments.

Incidentally at the end of the day this country is still very much British (especially within the village life you mention), and unless there is a white only plague this isn't going to change.

[amymars]

Originally Posted by Jonno

Just as there would have been a percentage of nationists within an Irish community.

Should everyone be tarred with the same brush though?

of course they shouldn't...

But I don't see the Irish as a major threat to me, fundementalist Muslims are a great threat to me and my way of life.

[Jonno]

Originally Posted by amymars

of course they shouldn't...

But I don't see the Irish as a major threat to me, fundementalist Muslims are a great threat to me and my way of life.

From terrorism? Well the IRA used to be the same. That's my point.

[Amelie]

Originally Posted by betty spaghetti

i was reading his post as...if you dont like it, then feck off...which is what i think, coming over here wanting to live the british way, ie use the education system, use the national health system... well why cant they use our churches and stop building mosques? instead they build their own little communities and keep themselves to them selves, if they want to live the 'british way' why do that ???

i would love to live in a world where there was no relgion-it would be a better place, most wars have been started/blamed in the name of religion...if we didnt have it, i wouldnt feel this way...put it this way i wouldnt go to an islamic country wearing a bikini giving it all hail mary and preaching about jesus,-its not thier custom/beliefs . neither are mosques in britain.

im not forcing religion on no one-each to their own in that, i just dont think having a country full of mosques is the way forward, hows about a new 100M super hospital instead or a super school etc....why a mosque...why not a buddhist temple or a synagogue for the jewish...why another mosque and why one so big???

You're missing my point. Again, why does being British have to mean being Christian? As i have already asked, if your argument is our history then why are you backing this religion when, temporally, its not been around that long. Why are you not backing the ones we had before 1400/1500 (or whenever it was). You're just picking a selected religion and claiming it stands for all things British.

Your argument falls even further into cloudy water when you ask:

"why a mosque...why not a buddhist temple or a synagogue for the jewish...why another mosque and why one so big??"

Hang on, i thought your problem was about us being a C of E counrty? Why are synagogues/temples okay? You are discriminating here against those of a certain faith. You claim the BNP not to be racist, but i disagree.

[ikontraband]

Originally Posted by Jiglo

Well the War Audit think tank set up to examine the link between religion and war states that in most cases other factors are the prime cause

well the examples that i gave are mostly down to religion issues (especially ethnic cleansing in africa and bosnia ) plain and simple 2 religions with one wanting to wipe the other out or did i miss something watching all those years of news reports and documentaties

[amymars]

Originally Posted by ikontraband

well the examples that i gave are mostly down to religion issues (especially ethnic cleansing in africa and bosnia ) plain and simple 2 religions with one wanting to wipe the other out or did i miss something watching all those years of news reports and documentaties

Religion definatley is the justification and legitimiser for most wars in history despite what anyone says I think.

[seandelier]

Originally Posted by amymars

of course they shouldn't...

But I don't see the Irish as a major threat to me, fundementalist Muslims are a great threat to me and my way of life.

not now they arennt but just ask people in warrington or omagh if that was the case a few years ago

wopuld you have thrown all irish folk out of the country or stopped them worshipping in churches in case some of them were terrorists

no, simple answer

you are also getting mixed up between fundementalists and extremists, not all fundamentalists are extremists and not all extremists are terrorists

a very small minority carry out terrorist attacks and a very small minority of mosques are used for these terrorists to have meeting in

generalising again

[butty]

cleaned up the post so yas can carry on the debate as before, think i got it all lemme know if i aint

grouch