My Friends mother

[Lozzie]

Originally Posted by RiskyLady

Being a care worker i see alot of different termenal illneses and i think people should have the right to end it if they want too i know that i would'nt want to die with no dignaty. We have just found out that andy's grandma has got a brain tumor and has 3-6 months to live she seems to be going down hill very quickly and im hoping she's not going to suffer too much

Love out to all of you xxxx

[Jiglo]

Some sad news there

If people wants to die then they should do the honours themselves in my opinion. Why should a doctor have to take more responsibility and have deaths on their conscience?

[RiskyLady]

Originally Posted by Lozzie

Love out to all of you xxxx

Thank you sweetie we have all just got to give her as much love as we can ans take each day as it comes. I care for people in my job but its much harder when its family and we are all so close.

[DavyJam]

Originally Posted by Undeniable1

Do you think that people should have the right to chose when they go if they are in that situation or do you think that it is not up to ourselves to choose when we die and we should let nature take its own course?

I agree it should be up to the individual. If I was in that terrible situation I know thats what I would want and there isn't a person on the planet who has the right to say otherwise.

[Northern Star]

Originally Posted by RiskyLady

Being a care worker i see alot of different termenal illneses and i think people should have the right to end it if they want too i know that i would'nt want to die with no dignaty. We have just found out that andy's grandma has got a brain tumor and has 3-6 months to live she seems to be going down hill very quickly and im hoping she's not going to suffer too much

Awww bless never nice to hear things like this...esp nana's who i love to bits..all nanas are ace

thinking about yas all do something spesh for andys nana for me she will no doubt deserve it

[T.C]

Really difficult to say until you're in the situation. The strongest urge is to not see them suffer of course, but human selfishness if thats the right word to convey it, makes you desperate to cling on to as long as you can with them.

My auntie died in my arms a couple of years ago , and it breaks my heart to think we 'made' her die by taking the descision to switch off her life support machine , even though it was beyond hope by then anyway. It was equally as hard seeing her in the state she was in though too. She had a brain haemmhorrage and this was over only a few days so this situation wasnt quite the same as someone having a long slow terminal illness and wasting away though. I dont know what I'd do if God forbid, I was in that situation with someone I love.
One of my best friends found out his mum has cancer on Monday and theres no more they can do . The thought of him having to go through something like that soon completely busts me up.

Personal choice? If it was me I'd say... "I'm offski" - Dont keep me alive and let me keep some dignity but guess its easier said than done; and its funny how all the things you think you will do in a situation can sometimes end up being the exact opposite when it comes to it

[emmab]

Originally Posted by Undeniable1

Recently died, well on Sunday.

Last year she was diagnosed with Motor neurone disease. It took 1 year before she died.

For those that don't know, this disease attacks the muscles, and there is no cure. Once you have it you have tops 3 years to live, and the death is a slow painful one where you cant eat food because you cant chew or swallow as your muscles don't work, you cant walk or do anything for yourself and you cant speak. Eventually you die through suffocation because your lungs stop working and you cant breath.

Do you think that people should have the right to chose when they go if they are in that situation or do you think that it is not up to ourselves to choose when we die and we should let nature take its own course?

A teriible disease my friends husband died of this at age 42 he was such a wonderful father, husband and a social work lecturer who wrote his own books and compiled many studies, very clever man. My friend wanted to help him go to sleep but he obviously di,nt want her to face consequences, so im all for euthinasia (if thats how u spell it)

[RiskyLady]

Originally Posted by Northern Star

Awww bless never nice to hear things like this...esp nana's who i love to bits..all nanas are ace

thinking about yas all do something spesh for andys nana for me she will no doubt deserve it

Thanx Debs going to see her this weekend she's has just gone into a home she needs 24 hr care now. Can't believe that just 5 weeks ago she was her normal bubbley self now she can't do anything for herself. We are going too see her this weekend hope she remembers us

[Miss C]

Originally Posted by Undeniable1

Recently died, well on Sunday.

Last year she was diagnosed with Motor neurone disease. It took 1 year before she died.

For those that don't know, this disease attacks the muscles, and there is no cure. Once you have it you have tops 3 years to live, and the death is a slow painful one where you cant eat food because you cant chew or swallow as your muscles don't work, you cant walk or do anything for yourself and you cant speak. Eventually you die through suffocation because your lungs stop working and you cant breath.

Do you think that people should have the right to chose when they go if they are in that situation or do you think that it is not up to ourselves to choose when we die and we should let nature take its own course?

Sorry to hear that, disease is a horrible thing. Bloody hell think of stephen hawkins, how longs he had motor neurone disease now?!!!

I've studied euthanasia in depth as well, well the legal and ethical perspectives, took an exam in it in Jan. It is, as someone said, an ethical minefield. It all just depends what ethical approach you take as to whether its 'right' or not, without going into detail, reverting back to basics, it basically all depends whether you give more status to the sanctity of life or to human autonomy. Both must be heavily protected by law if we want to keep living in any sort of civilization, & its the trying to strike the right balance in deciding where to draw the line that causes so much controversy, its impossible please everyone in this debate.


Heres a basic legal perspective on the matter for anyone thats interested.

Firstly, there is no right to die in English law, & up until a few years back it was a criminal offence to commit suicide! (lol which brainiac though that one up I wonder!!?).

Basically there are different types of euthanasia, some are already legal in this country, some are not. IMO the system we already have in place is FAIRLY sensible, I know many will disagree.

ACTIVE euthanasia refers to any positive action done intentionally terminating life, for example, administering a lethal injection to end suffering. This at present is ILLEGAL in our country, due to factors i'll mention in a minute.

PASSIVE euthanasia refers to the shortening of life through an omission to act, such as withholding life-support treatment so that 'nature can take its course'. This is LEGAL in circumstances where the patient has made a prior request for treatment to be withheld/withdrawn at a certain stage of depletion, or where family/doctors believe it is in the patients BEST INTERESTS not to keep the patient alive any longer. (that is the crucial factor that stops doctors getting prosecuted for murder.)

VOLUNTARY euthanasia is where life is terminated at a patients request.

NON VOLUNTARY euthanasia is the termination of life of a patient who is INCAPABLE of deciding for themselves (this is one area the abuse of power risk kicks in)

and INVOLUNTARY euthanasia is where the life of the patient is terminated REGARDLESS of the patients wishes. This type of euthanasia is universally illegal. (Its argued that the introduction of voluntary euthanasia will increase the risk of non voluntary & involuntary euthansia - logical argument if you ask me.)

There is also an important legal difference in HOW the life terminating treatment is administered. Physician Assisted Death (PAD), is where the doc administers the treatment (legal in the Netherlands, switzerland, new orleans...), Physician Assisted Suicide (PAS) is where the doc GIVES THE PATIENT the means to kill themselves.

In Dianne Pretty's case, as shabba said, the reason her case failed was that she was asking for her husband to be given the means to end her life, & for HIM to be allowed to end her life without being convicted of murder. If she had asked instead for her life to be terminated BY A DOCTOR, she would probably have been successful. She died about 12 days after the hearing.

PAD is very much alive & apparent in this country behind the scenes, prosecution is avoided by a lacuna in the law, called the 'doctrine of DOUBLE EFFECT'. Basically, as you will know, terminally ill patients in alot of pain are allowed to be administered large doses of morphine etc to numb their pain, despite the fact that these v.high doses of morphine INCIDENTELY shorten the patients life. The fact that life shortening is effectively a SIDE EFFECT of the pain relief, & it is not the doctors INTENTION (KEY aspect) to shorten life, means that he is not guilty of murder. THIS IS A DANGEROUS LOOPHOLE THAT CAN LEAVE SCOPE FOR ABUSE - THINK HAROLD SHIPMAN - just because he didn't get away with it, doesn't mean others we don't know about don't.

The fundamental reason that we do not allow euthanasia in this country is, aside from the fact it would completely violate traditional ethical, moral, religious principles, is that it opens the floodgates for ABUSE by doctors, & creates the potential to slide down a slippery slope of circumstances in which intentional killing should be allowed.

Main slippery slope argument - If PAD was to be allowed, doctors would assist in suicides in more and more dubious circumstances; if one type of case were to be considered lawful at the discretion of the doctor, how far should he be permitted to go?? FOR EXAMPLE, do we just include patients who are suffering physically??? Just terminally ill patients?? Or patients with a permanent disease that serverely affects their quality of life??? Or patients with mental health problems - servere depression....people suffering incessently because of a death of a loved one or something....people who just have low self esteem or can't be arsed to life anymore???? WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE??THERE HAS TO BE A CLEAR LINE FOR THIS TO BE FAIR. Exactly how serious do the circumstances have to be before killing can be allowed??

There is plenty of evidence to support this argumant - in The Netherlands where PAD is legal, there have been cases now, after so long of assisted death being 'the norm', where people are being given lethal injections for almost any reason. One mans life was terminated because he was simply 'bored of life', one womans was terminated because she could not get over the loss of her two sons. Some may think this is justified, but SURELY DEATH is not the remedy we should be promoting for such problems!!

The main floodgate argument - If we were to allow voluntary euthanasia - this would increase the chances of involuntary euthanasia being carried out. Also logical & based on evidence from countries that do allow it.

There are also various other arguments for why it shouldn't be allowed, but evidence doesn't support them. Such as that if we allow doctors to terminate life, this will have a snowball effect on the public's attitudes to death, people would have less respect for life & murder rates would rise. But murder rates are evidentially lower in some countries that allow PAD.

There are SO MANY good arguments for either side of the debate, & loads of great articles on this topic.

IMO if it is legalised, some SERIOUSLY STRICT safeguards need to be put in place (although there is evidence for such safeguards failing in the Netherlands).

For Shabba, Lozzie, & whoever else is interested, google 'Stephen W. Smith, the slippery slope debate on physician assisted suicide and euthanasia' & 'fallacies of the logical slippery slope in the debate on p....', those articles will give you pretty much EVERY argument there is for both sides, I used them as the basis of my exam.

['Shabba']

Originally Posted by Miss C

For Shabba, Lozzie, & whoever else is interested, google 'Stephen W. Smith, the slippery slope debate on physician assisted suicide and euthanasia' & 'fallacies of the logical slippery slope in the debate on p....', those articles will give you pretty much EVERY argument there is for both sides, I used them as the basis of my exam.

I read them just the other day

[Miss C]

And for everyone on here who is all for voluntary euthanasia, a bill legalising it has long been in the pipeline & will probably be reconsidered & passed in the next few years, so not to worry if you would rather make an early exit when things get ugly.

[Miss C]

Originally Posted by Shabba

I read them just the other day

They're good aren't they. There are loads of good text books on this stuff too, the ones by Mason Mcall & Smith are best, I dunno if you've come across them??